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Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

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26 Feb 2012 22:24 #22314 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

Chris Summers wrote: The problem is that these cars risk being overshadowed by the once-in-a-lifetime sales of a lot of other great iron at about the same time - a Pierce Silver Arrow at B-J, the Moretti Packards at Gooding, and...well, everything in the Milhous collection. If you are a collector of major 1930s iron - what Bob Roller describes as "everything worth being caught dead in" - and not totally ACD faithful, there's a lot of opportunities not to be missed.

RM is pushing the Milhouses' J-208 / 2223 as the Dolores Del Rio Car. I believe it was actually owned at one time by her husband, Cedric Gibbons, the award-winning stage designer who created the Oscar statuette, and I've never seen anything identifying him as the original owner or any indication that he owned it very long.



Hello,

RM published a salesprice of $ 990000 (incl. Buyers premium?) for J 208. The estimate was about $ 900000 - $ 1200000


Matt

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Wilhelm Busch

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23 Jan 2012 17:13 #21992 by West Peterson
Replied by West Peterson on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

silverghost wrote:

Steve Derus wrote: The Duesenberg Murphy town car consigned to BJ appears to have a reserve.


If it car does indeed have a reserve ~~~That would be quite unusual for the B-J auction as for the last half dozen years, or so, ALL cars had to be consigned at B-J Scottsdale with NO reserve~~~or B-J would NOT accept the consignment.
With this No reserve policy B-J always wins as ALL cars sell. ~~~ While seller/consigners often loose their shirt on many of the B-J auction no reserve sales.


B-J press release announced a 99.69 percent sell-through rate for the entire week. This obviously includes every car bought back by its consigner... which, based on numbers I've heard in the past, could be as high as 40 percent.

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23 Jan 2012 01:43 #21990 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

alsancle wrote: There are some real heavy duty cars in that museum.


I have not known about that museum before. You are right looks like there are a lot of "car-jewels" to see.

The SJ La Grande DCP they display there is one of my favorit Duesenbergs.

It is not so far away from here, I think I going to visit it this year.

Matt

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Wilhelm Busch

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28 Dec 2011 01:24 #21747 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
There are some real heavy duty cars in that museum.

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27 Dec 2011 21:48 #21746 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

Chris Summers wrote: I normally refrain from mentioning owners directly here as it has got me into trouble before. That said, the Louwman Museum (The Hague) shows the car prominently on their website, which is a fairly public admission of ownership.



Thank you Chris,

I found it on the museum page, it looks like the car is repainted.

Matt

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Wilhelm Busch

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25 Dec 2011 02:30 #21730 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
I normally refrain from mentioning owners directly here as it has got me into trouble before. That said, the Louwman Museum (The Hague) shows the car prominently on their website, which is a fairly public admission of ownership.

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25 Dec 2011 02:00 #21729 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

Chris Summers wrote: J-355 / 2225, coming out of Europe. It was black with polished aluminum moldings when last seen at auction.



Hello Chris,

Bonhams wrote in its car-discription that the car was displayed in an european museum/collection. Do you know where/in which european country that was?

Matt

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Wilhelm Busch

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24 Dec 2011 16:55 #21728 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
J-355 / 2225, coming out of Europe. It was black with polished aluminum moldings when last seen at auction.

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24 Dec 2011 15:53 #21726 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

landmark wrote:
Hello,

and one more, at the RM "Milhous-Collection" auction in Florida in febuary

www.rmauctions.com/CarDetails.cf ... CarID=r111

B.t.w. (according to the pictures) a nice looking car.


Matt



Hello,

one more Duesenberg Model J Murphy Convertible Sedan is for sale in January @Bonhams auction.

www.bonhams.com/usa/auction/19680/lot/334/


Matt

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14 Dec 2011 20:59 #21629 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
I received the BJ brochure in the mail. For the Duesenberg and a few other "high dollar" cars it does not state "no reserve" in the description, while all the other cars in the brochure have a notation "no reserve".

I agree that BJ has had a no reserve auction policy for a few years but it seems they are now making some exceptions.

Here's a link to the online description of the Duesenberg, note in the column marked "SALE TYPE" that it says "reserve".

www.barrett-jackson.com/applicat ... f22%2f2012

There's an Isotta that has a reserve also, and I think a few others.


Steve

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14 Dec 2011 18:04 #21628 by silverghost
Replied by silverghost on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

Steve Derus wrote: The Duesenberg Murphy town car consigned to BJ appears to have a reserve.


If it car does indeed have a reserve ~~~That would be quite unusual for the B-J auction as for the last half dozen years, or so, ALL cars had to be consigned at B-J Scottsdale with NO reserve~~~or B-J would NOT accept the consignment.
With this No reserve policy B-J always wins as ALL cars sell. ~~~ While seller/consigners often loose their shirt on many of the B-J auction no reserve sales.

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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14 Dec 2011 17:34 #21627 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
The Duesenberg Murphy town car consigned to BJ appears to have a reserve.

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14 Dec 2011 17:20 #21626 by silverghost
Replied by silverghost on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
I don't think the B-J Auction will be setting any new records here selling full Classics.
Decades ago B-J started their auction business selling Full Classics & Real Antiques.
In my opinion B-J is NOT the auction with which you want to consign your full Classic .
They are now basically a musclecar & hotrod/streetrod/restomod auction for what I call the more money that brains crowd.
Classics consigned at B-J usually sell for very little money.
Classic & Antique/Brass Era buyers usually don't attend B-J in any large numbers; if at all.

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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14 Dec 2011 14:21 #21624 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

Chris Summers wrote: The problem is that these cars risk being overshadowed by the once-in-a-lifetime sales of a lot of other great iron at about the same time - a Pierce Silver Arrow at B-J, the Moretti Packards at Gooding, and...well, everything in the Milhous collection. If you are a collector of major 1930s iron - what Bob Roller describes as "everything worth being caught dead in" - and not totally ACD faithful, there's a lot of opportunities not to be missed.

RM is pushing the Milhouses' J-208 / 2223 as the Dolores Del Rio Car. I believe it was actually owned at one time by her husband, Cedric Gibbons, the award-winning stage designer who created the Oscar statuette, and I've never seen anything identifying him as the original owner or any indication that he owned it very long.



Hello Chris,

I expect that there will be some more "one-in-a-lifetime-sales" coming up in the nearer future...

According to an article (Taking the hig road) by Dwight Schooling at "Automobile Quarterly" Volume 30 Number 4 (Summer 1992) the car (J-208) was, as you mentioned, owned by Cedric Gibbons, his wife Dolores del Rio owned a Muphy Town car (J-393?).

Cheers

Matt

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Wilhelm Busch

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14 Dec 2011 13:57 #21623 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
The problem is that these cars risk being overshadowed by the once-in-a-lifetime sales of a lot of other great iron at about the same time - a Pierce Silver Arrow at B-J, the Moretti Packards at Gooding, and...well, everything in the Milhous collection. If you are a collector of major 1930s iron - what Bob Roller describes as "everything worth being caught dead in" - and not totally ACD faithful, there's a lot of opportunities not to be missed.

RM is pushing the Milhouses' J-208 / 2223 as the Dolores Del Rio Car. I believe it was actually owned at one time by her husband, Cedric Gibbons, the award-winning stage designer who created the Oscar statuette, and I've never seen anything identifying him as the original owner or any indication that he owned it very long.

Chris Summers
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13 Dec 2011 21:17 #21622 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Re: Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

Joel wrote: Time for one our favorite sports, Duesenberg watching! Looks like plenty of them will be crossing the auction blocks this January in Arizona.

How about some friendly speculating, and maybe collecting some details about the cars, and even some predictions? There is plenty to talk about.

Will the spectacular 10 million dollar sale of the Whittell Duesenberg mean a rising tide for all Duesey's? Perhaps that is why so many are being offered. Or is our devastated economy forcing owners to bail? Obviously Mr. O'Quinns collecting affected the maket, as did his passing. Is the ripple effect from Mr. O'Quinn over, or will it carry on?

Gooding is offering this disapearing top Murphy Convertible Coupe, but no details could be found other that this little picture. Any one know the car?



(...)


Hello,

Gooding published an Estimate about $ 1.6 to 2.2 million for the Murphy CC

You never know what happens at an auction, but I think that sum is very ambitious :rolleyes:

Cheers

Landmark

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Wilhelm Busch

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02 Dec 2011 11:39 #21531 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
For those who keep track of such things, the Milhous car is J-208 / 2228.

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02 Dec 2011 10:57 #21530 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

Steve Derus wrote: There's another J consigned to Mecum in January.

www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detai ... tryRow=670



Hello,

and one more, at the RM "Milhous-Collection" auction in Florida in febuary

www.rmauctions.com/CarDetails.cf ... CarID=r111

B.t.w. (according to the pictures) a nice looking car.


Matt

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Wilhelm Busch

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02 Dec 2011 05:41 #21529 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Willoughby Limousine J-306 / 2402, ex-J-383, long-owned in Florida and a car that most people seem to have forgotten exists. It was an award-winner in Auburn in 1972; I don't know if it's been back since.

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02 Dec 2011 03:29 #21528 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
There's another J consigned to Mecum in January.

www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detai ... tryRow=670

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01 Dec 2011 16:56 #21524 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Hey Guys,

I think you are thinking of 2002 and not 2001 The first auction in 2001 had many great cars selling for bargain prices but the Duesenberg you are talking about was either 2002 or 2003. It sold for around 950k I believe.

The only Duesenberg in 2001 was the mis-mash town car who's J number I forget. The 35 Auburn Speedster sold for 120k. I met the buyer at a show a few years ago and he told me how he had never planned on bidding until he saw the prices. He ended up trading it for a Gullwing which looks to be an astute move. The Murphy bodied P1 went for about 50k and was an insane bargain. If you look closely at my avatar you may recognize one of the cars sold in 2001. I also was not planning on buying anything.

The Henley went to Ron Meyers so you can imagine it was sold at wholesale.

A.J.

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01 Dec 2011 02:26 #21519 by silverghost
Replied by silverghost on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Matt~
I believe my late Father has the old 2001 Don Williams/Blackhawk/Hershey Auction catalog around here somewhere in his office with most of the eventual selling prices less buyer's premiums .
I will look for it tomorrow for you.

Off the top of my head I cannot remember what those Duesenberg "J" s Don & Richie offered at this auction eventually sold for.
They were indeed rather inexpensive compared to prices attained for Model "J"s in the last year, or so.

I wish again that I had a time machine to be able to go back ten years and bid on that red Murphy "J" Duesey, & R~R Henley roadster .

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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30 Nov 2011 23:44 #21516 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

silverghost wrote: Joel~
That's the Model "J" Murphy I was thinking about~
Thank's for the two great photos of J-345 .
This car is indeed spectacular ; and on my all time top-10 lifetime Classic auto want list.

The very first Hershey auction I spoke about above in the Giant Center happened only weeks after the infamous September 11th New York Terrorist attack.
Sadly because of this tragic American event many autos that Don & Riche had assembled for this auction sold for super-low bargan basement prices.
Dad & I were like "kids in a candy store" at that auction with so many great full Classics.
We were also trying to buy the Rolls ~Royce Phantom II Henley roadster Don had there.
I remember building a plastic Monagram model of that very car as a young child. I still have that very same model.
The first Hershey auction was sadly a real blood-bath for Don & Richie.
I remember also my late father & I seeing, & speaking to, Randy Ema at the auction's preview about this super model "J" we were interested in bidding on.
There were two great model"J" s at this auction.

Thank's Guys~



Hello Silverghost,

do you remember at what price the car was sold in 2001?


Matt

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30 Nov 2011 20:00 #21515 by silverghost
Replied by silverghost on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Joel~
That's the Model "J" Murphy I was thinking about~
Thank's for the two great photos of J-345 .
This car is indeed spectacular ; and on my all time top-10 lifetime Classic auto want list.

The very first Hershey auction I spoke about above in the Giant Center happened only weeks after the infamous September 11th New York Terrorist attack.
Sadly because of this tragic American event many autos that Don & Riche had assembled for this auction sold for super-low bargan basement prices.
Dad & I were like "kids in a candy store" at that auction with so many great full Classics.
We were also trying to buy the Rolls ~Royce Phantom II Henley roadster Don had there.
I remember building a plastic Monagram model of that very car as a young child. I still have that very same model.
The first Hershey auction was sadly a real blood-bath for Don & Richie.
I remember also my late father & I seeing, & speaking to, Randy Ema at the auction's preview about this super model "J" we were interested in bidding on.
There were two great model"J" s at this auction.

Thank's Guys~

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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30 Nov 2011 19:22 #21514 by Joel
Replied by Joel on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Brad, an easy way to ID the former Eldon Eppy J345 is by the one peice stainless steel exhaust manifold. J345 is so spectacular, I love that car. In 2006 I had the pleasure of visiting the home of the current owner, John Tritschuh, and getting a very good look at the car, and also visiting Eldons home where he showed me his current projects and and told me all about J345. Both of these fellows are first class guys!




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30 Nov 2011 19:13 #21513 by silverghost
Replied by silverghost on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Chris~
Thank's for the quick reply~~~
Great for you to clear that question up.
The two autos do look very similar.

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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30 Nov 2011 18:58 #21512 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Hi Brad,

No, the former Eby car is J-345 / 2367.

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30 Nov 2011 18:47 #21511 by silverghost
Replied by silverghost on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Is that red Murphy convertible coupe' the former old Eldon Eppy restoration that Don Williams/Blackhawk had offered at his first Hershey auction about ten years ago ?

If so~~~

We were there & were trying to bid on that model "J" at that time.

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29 Nov 2011 00:08 #21504 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

alsancle wrote: Is it just me or is it a bit peculiar that J-284 has 17 wheels with 19 sidemounts and the fenders for 19 wheels?


Yes, looks like someone changed the driving wheels and has forgotten the spares...

Here is a photo with complete fitting wheels

duesey186.com/Datasheets/Model_J ... rm2310.htm


The auctionprices in january would be interesting. I guess/expect that there will be some more Model J "going to market" (private sale or auctions) next time.

Cheers

Matt

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Wilhelm Busch

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28 Nov 2011 17:16 #21503 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Is it just me or is it a bit peculiar that J-284 has 17 wheels with 19 sidemounts and the fenders for 19 wheels?

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28 Nov 2011 04:14 #21502 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Joel, the Murphy is J-284 / 2310, consigned out of CA, with a repro supercharger as discussed on the Murphy Convertible Coupe thread. The LeBaron is J-487 / 2336, an O'Quinn car.

I think the Whittell Coupe was a one-off case and expect the other cars to trade in the same price range for cars of their type as in the past few years. I would not be surprised to see J-381 / 2401 not reach reserve given its sale at Barrett-Jackson. That said, I don't really track market values, so I could be surprised.

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28 Nov 2011 04:02 #21501 by Joel
Time for one our favorite sports, Duesenberg watching! Looks like plenty of them will be crossing the auction blocks this January in Arizona.

How about some friendly speculating, and maybe collecting some details about the cars, and even some predictions? There is plenty to talk about.

Will the spectacular 10 million dollar sale of the Whittell Duesenberg mean a rising tide for all Duesey's? Perhaps that is why so many are being offered. Or is our devastated economy forcing owners to bail? Obviously Mr. O'Quinns collecting affected the maket, as did his passing. Is the ripple effect from Mr. O'Quinn over, or will it carry on?

Gooding is offering this disapearing top Murphy Convertible Coupe, but no details could be found other that this little picture. Any one know the car?




RM is offering this Dual Cowl Phaeton:


Barret Jackson Is offering chassis 2401, engine J-381



I'm still thinking things over before I make any predictions. What do you guys think? Any other cars coming up for auction that you know of?



Have fun, Joel :D

Joel Nystrom
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