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Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
- landmark
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J-148 will be offered at the Paris Retromobile auction by artcurial.
Estimate 600-800k Euro.
www.artcurial.com/en/asp/fullcat ... 56&image=3 You will find the description in english tongue, underneath the french one.
Cheers
Matt
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Wilhelm Busch
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Bob Roller wrote: Matt,
About 60 years ago,Jack Irwin and I installed a clutch in this car, J-357.It had about 20,000 miles on it then. This was a nice but slightly neglected original.The picture in Elbert's first edition shows it as a car in decline but back then,7:50x19 tires were nearly unobtainable and what few there were
had been around too long and were dry rotted.
I have driven it several times and it was a good running,good driving Duesenberg.
Bob Roller
Hello Bob,
I always appreciate your postings, they bring the history of some cars much closer to me.
I know which two (Elbert Book) photos you mentioned.
One of them is aswell published on the Curtright-website www.duesey2208.com/Datasheets/Mo ... rm2388.htm
Cheers
Matt
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The red plastic or naugahyde or dog hide was not in this car when we worked on it. I saw it with the red stuff for the first time in 1986 and
had no idea it was a seat cover. Good idea IMHO.
Bob Roller
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J-357 is going to auction with its original upholstery uncovered for the first time in...many, many years. (The red plastic upholstery installed when Bob knew the car was actually seat covers for the original black leather.)
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It was a restyled running board for sure.
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About 60 years ago,Jack Irwin and I installed a clutch in this car, J-357.It had about 20,000 miles on it then. This was a nice but slightly neglected original.The picture in Elbert's first edition shows it as a car in decline but back then,7:50x19 tires were nearly unobtainable and what few there were
had been around too long and were dry rotted.
I have driven it several times and it was a good running,good driving Duesenberg.
Bob Roller
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- landmark
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landmark wrote:
Chris Summers wrote:
(...)
No word yet on Mecum.
Hello,
it looks like the Duesy@mecum was not sold too. www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detai ... 813-161577
Cheers
Matt
Hello,
the car would be offered (again) @Mecum Kissimmee in January
www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detai ... 114-174314
and a Model J Murphy Torpedo Berline Convertible at a time owned by the movie-actor Tyrone Power
www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detai ... 114-174286
B.t.w. I have learned that T. Power is the father of Romina Power, in europe she was (together with her former husband Albano) a very popular singer with serveral No. 1 Chart-Hits in the early 1980ies
Here is a medley
Two more Duesenberg J auction offers in january
J-357 Murphy CC by RM
rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1064420
Looks like a nice car for to use it
J-129 Le Baron DCP by Gooding
www.goodingco.com/vehicle/1929-d ... phaeton-2/
Cheers
Matt
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Wilhelm Busch
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Steve Derus wrote: That could happen in about 30 years when all of us old guys are long gone and no one cares anymore about the cars we revere.
And this is why I describe what I do as "keeping the flame alive." Somebody's got to be around to remember.
Incidentally, no "said to be" or "supposed to be" - that is an original supercharger on J-512, bought by the immediately previous owner for the car at considerable cost.
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mikespeed35 wrote: That car, J365, was a no sale at 1.5M in TX.
CORDially Mike
Mike, thank you!
Cheers
Matt
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CORDially Mike
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Steve Derus wrote: price seems low on J-512 to me, especially when compared to the Franay sedan at $1.65M earlier this year. A true SJ Beverly should be worth much more. Wasn't it Best of Show at ACD Festival a few years ago?
Hello,
the Franay car was offered again, last week @motostalgia auction during the formula-one race-weekend in Austin, Tx.
Unfortunately I have not found any information if the car has been sold or not and for what price (highest bid).
Matt
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I think it is 50/50 on the convertible/hardtop ratio over 2 million. Many of the Ferrari's are hard tops. The Wittel coupe was a hardtop. All the Tabot Largo and Delahaye that bring big money are hard tops.
It is totally about style, engine and provenance at the upper levels.
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landmark wrote: Hello,
J-512 a 1933 Duesenberg Model (S)J Murphy Beverly sold @RM New York auction for hammerprice of $ 1.6 Million
Far under its published estimate of $ 2 to 2.5 million.
www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1063792
It is said that the car is equiped with an original supercharger, not a repro.
Cheers
Matt
Probaly because it is a closed car. Don't see too many cars without a folding top go for over a million, at least none that I've noticed.
That fact that it sold that far under the estimate tells me thet the seller didn't believe the estimate.
The fact that it sold for 1.6 million tells me that it must be an outstanding car!
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- landmark
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J-512 a 1933 Duesenberg Model (S)J Murphy Beverly sold @RM New York auction for hammerprice of $ 1.6 Million
Far under its published estimate of $ 2 to 2.5 million.
www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1063792
It is said that the car is equiped with an original supercharger, not a repro.
Cheers
Matt
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Wilhelm Busch
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These cars were originally ment to be actually driven~~~not just used as show "Trailer Queens" or museum display pieces that get re-restored every few years in another color by another new deep pockets owner as a speculative Investment.
Keep your Duesenberg the way it is~~~"Patina" and all, end enjoy actually driving it~~~far too few owners of these great Duesenberg model "J" autos still do this today ! <!-- s;-) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt="" title="Wink" /><!-- s;-) -->
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Joel wrote:
(...)
My Model J was last restored in 1959, and now the many flaws have been re-classified as "patina", drawing much more positive feedback than negative. But still, when I show up with my ratty old Duesey at an event filled with minted out show cars, I leave feeling kind of like I should do something about it. But I won't.
Hello Joel,
you have my "Thumb up" for that statement!
Cheers
Matt
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Mike Dube wrote: I'll weigh in again on the side of leaving nice cars alone. I saw J-108 in Ken McBrides's collection a few years ago. IMHO, restoring it was so unnecessary.
I agree with you about leaving nice cars alone. But it is hard. I see people nitpick every tiny flaw on Dueseys that were restored 15+ years ago and starting to show a little age. The standards are set very high, and some owners just can't stand the criticism if the car is not perfect. Or they feel that the car deserves better. Or they want to win a show.
My Model J was last restored in 1959, and now the many flaws have been re-classified as "patina", drawing much more positive feedback than negative. But still, when I show up with my ratty old Duesey at an event filled with minted out show cars, I leave feeling kind of like I should do something about it. But I won't.
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Bob Roller wrote: WHY did J108 bring a bigger price than J345?
Bob Roller
One off car, celebrity and movie history.
Agreed, plus J108 is a fresh restoration and J345 was restored over 30 years ago. Also it seems that the description of J345 played it safe on the supercharger description, leaving out the restorers claim that the supercharger cases are original Duesenberg parts. In my opinion, that hurt the value. Original superchargers add big$$, repops don't.
I finally figured out something about J108. Looking at the recent pictures of it, I thought the tires looked too small. There is so much space between the top of the tire and the underside of the rear fender. But now, after looking closer, it seems that the rear fenders are mounted higher on the body that other Murphy CC's, making the tires look smaller. Does anyone know why?
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Chris Summers wrote:
(...)
No word yet on Mecum.
Hello,
it looks like the Duesy@mecum was not sold too. www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detai ... 813-161577
Cheers
Matt
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Wilhelm Busch
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Chris Summers wrote: J-345 was no-sale at $1.8 million high bid.
J-108 was sold at $2.365 million.
No word yet on Mecum.
Hello Chris,
thank you for the information.
I wonder a bit about the "low" :rolleyes: bit for J-345, auctions have allways their surprises
Cheers
Matt
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J-108 was sold at $2.365 million.
No word yet on Mecum.
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does anybody knows the auction-results of the Duesenberg-cars offered @ the Pebble Beach/Monterey auctions (Gooding, RM and Mecum)?
Thanks!
Matt
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It was a nice car. If that is a factory blower someone should reunite it with the limo a few posts back and swap in the reproduction. Of course I'm not sure of the overall financial wisdom of that plan since I'm not suggesting I should do it .
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Monterey
16 - 17 August 2013
I'll guess 3.1 mil.
www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1060491
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silverghost wrote: In spite of the fact that it is an original factory supercharged model "SJ"~~~
It still is an unrestored original car that has only had a quickie cosmetic partial body paint job with a very plain- unexciting closed four-door body style in my opinion.
From earlier period photos that still survive ~~~ That now polished aluminum beltline molding treatment it is now sporting was just not very long ago stripped & polished during it's quickie cosmetic paint job~~~Just for this auction I suspect ?
Older extant B&W photos in various older Duesenberg books show a painted beltline trim.
Also that trim over the windshield on the roof appears to have been added.
I just wonder how well it actually runs & drives mechanically ?
You will not see this car winning any concours show event soon~~~ without a total proper frame-off restoration & proper chassis painting & overall car detailng .
I see two painted exhaust pipe manifold connectors & two rusty units~~~
Also non original fuel line hoses & clamps.
and much much more wrong~~~ just on the auction link photos.
Also~~~
It is now no longer a totally original "survivor car" since it's new cosmetic quickie re-paint.
Don't get me wrong~~~
It's still a nice car~~~but in this present condition a $$$ 1.2 Million car ? ? ?
REALLY ? ? ?
Hello,
here is a link to an old b/w-photo of that car.
www.duesey2208.com/Datasheets/Mo ... rm2543.htm
Cheers
Matt
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It still is an unrestored original car that has only had a quickie cosmetic partial body paint job with a very plain- unexciting closed four-door body style in my opinion.
From earlier period photos that still survive ~~~ That now polished aluminum beltline molding treatment it is now sporting was just not very long ago stripped & polished during it's quickie cosmetic paint job~~~Just for this auction I suspect ?
Older extant B&W photos in various older Duesenberg books show a painted beltline trim.
Also that polished trim over the windshield on the roof appears to have been added.
I just wonder how well it actually runs & drives mechanically ?
You will not see this car winning any concours show event soon~~~ without a total proper frame-off restoration & proper chassis painting & overall car detailng .
I see two painted exhaust pipe manifold connectors & two rusty units~~~
Also non original fuel line hoses & clamps.
and much much more wrong~~~ just on the auction link photos.
Also~~~
It is now no longer a totally original "survivor car" since it's new cosmetic quickie re-paint.
Don't get me wrong~~~
It's still a nice car~~~but in this present condition a $$$ 1.2 Million car ? ? ?
REALLY ? ? ?
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Chris Summers wrote: High bid of $1.2 million reported for J-514.
Thank you, Chris
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Most of us, on the other hand are collectors. Collectors usually make decisions without considering the financial downside but based on our own concepts or more often impulses.
As a general rule, a collector jousting with a dealer over a car is not a fair fight. One is level headed and the other is running on emotion.
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I agree with you about having,and actually using a nice "Driver" type car~~~
My above comment means I just thought that Dragone's pre-auction selling estimate of $1.5--$2. Million might not be that realistic despite the extreme rarity of that original factory superchared SJ ?
I guess we shall see when we eventually hear the final auction hammer price~~~to see if I was correct ?
It's still a nice car~~~~But is it a $ 2 MILLION dollar car ?
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I have seen a number of cars that Manny & George have offered for sale in the past that just had quickie paint jobs applied over a car body that was never dis-assembled to paint it .
One similar example that comes to mind was a bright blue Springfield Rolls~Royce Brewster York Roadster that I went down to the "Classics" event in Atlantic City NJ.
Upon inspection & questions to George Dragone. I soon discovered that this car had received a similar quickie paint job without any body disassemblly . Even the fender welting was painted the very same blue !
The underside of the car was showing it's age as nothing had ever been done to it sice new .
When time came to have it cross the auction block they had to push it across as it refused to start-up.
All the other 25+ carsat this event drove past the auction block under their own power !
A similar quickie paint job on this "SJ" might help explain the ill-fitting hood ? ? ! !
Take a look at the chassis rail photo on their web-link above and you will see what I am speaking about.
What is YOUR opinion ?
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mikespeed35 wrote: What did J-514 sell for?
CORDially Mike
Hello,
does someone know the auction-price for that car?
The estimate (by Dragone) was $ 1.5-2.0 Million.
Cheers
Matt
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