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Hub/Brake Drum removal

  • Tom_Parkinson
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10 Sep 2014 10:04 #28156 by Tom_Parkinson
Replied by Tom_Parkinson on topic Hub/Brake Drum removal
Hi,

Sometimes you just need a push and a shove--12-tons worth! Great looking tool!

--Tom

With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.

Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International

See pix of 1509A here: mbcurl.me/YCSE

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  • Auburn
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10 Sep 2014 04:21 #28154 by Auburn
Replied by Auburn on topic Hub/Brake Drum removal

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  • Auburn
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10 Sep 2014 04:07 #28153 by Auburn
Hi Guys - I am bringing this old subject back as I found a great puller which allowed me to pop the rear drum of my 1932 Auburn in literally 10 seconds - without having to use a hammer or air compressor.

A bit of a background here, I did try various smaller pullers with my impact wrench with no results other than getting the puller bent.

I also tried the advice of driving on bumpy roads, in circles, braking hard in reverse etc.. with the nut loosely on - to no avail.

Eventually got tired of this and ordered the "Extreme Heavy Duty Hydraulic puller" off ebay..costs about $185.

The tool arrived yesterday and yes , this is the mother of all pullers in terms of extreme heavy-dutyiness ,weight..and design.
There are other hydraulic pullers out there but significantly more expensive.

Spent 10 minutes putting it together and found out that the arms are too long for the job, so I had to find a custom spacer - just a thick steel cylinder - to add length between the puller moveable tip and the hub .

The cone at the tip can be unscrewed so various type spacers may be used.

The tool has a large handle (not in the photo), so you give it a succession of rapid, large pumps and in 10 seconds the drum pops - Remember to leave the wheel nut loosely on at the end of the thread.

I found that a rapid increase of pressure works much better than a slow loading to pop the drums out.

The arms and the end hook part are quite large so it hooks on the inner surface part of the drum lip and won't bend the edge.

This would also be perfect to remove those tighly keyed Auburn rear axle pinion flange.
I did wrestle with mine earlier this year and had to resort to cutting it out and re-manufature a new one.

ebay search under:

EXTREME HEAVY DUTY 12 TON HYDRAULIC GEAR PULLER PORTABLE VERSATILE 9 3/4" SPREAD

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  • Mike Dube
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03 Jul 2009 18:01 #13923 by Mike Dube
Replied by Mike Dube on topic Hub/Brake Drum removal
For what its worth, I have also had very good luck with a Posilock as Mike Huffman mentioned. I thread the nut back on loosely to catch the drum when it lets go. The center of Posilock I bought just fits inside the nut.

The first time I used it, the first drum I tried remained stubborn. Discouraged, I went into the house to get away from it for a while. I had left everything with torque on it and came back an hour later to find the hub had come loose. Thank goodness I had had the nut threaded on a bit!
I have since discovered it sounds like a gun when it finally goes. Be careful!

Mike
8-100A

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03 Jul 2009 16:28 #13922 by
Replied by on topic hub
You must remember that, that is a rolled steel hub, and not very thick. You need to only remove the bear minimum of material.
My 2 cents
Ken Clark

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  • Tom_Parkinson
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03 Jul 2009 03:26 #13918 by Tom_Parkinson
Replied by Tom_Parkinson on topic Success!
I am posting, with permission, Neal's email to me relating his success at getting this hub removed. A photo of his set-up is attached. I suspect that the puller he used was taxed at 1,000% of its capacity, but it worked!!

Success!!!!!


8 days and countless attempts have paid off - thanks in large part to encouragement, and advice (both good and bad) from friends and the ACD Club. I've attached a photo of the final modifications to my puller. I used some hardened all-thread because the bolts I was using failed. A piece of plywood to prevent pinching and large C-clamp to prevent spreading. I heated the darn thing up to almost red hot so many times I couldn't count. My brake guy said the best penetrating solution for this situation was brake fluid - he said to heat the hub up as hot as possible and then squirt in the fluid and it would "crawl" up and in. My mechanic friend said to use a different penetrator (Zep) and he also lent me his pneumatic chisel with a concave head to use on the shaft of the puller. Still, nothing was working.

I must say, as of last night I had gotten pretty discouraged. I even went ahead and detailed a section of the hub to send to you and was ready to spend some money for a bigger puller. This morning I decided to make the modifications to the puller and give it one last try. I put what felt like a huge amount of pressure on the thing. So much so that the case hardened arms of the puller were bowing (but the all-thread wasn't bending). It still didn't seem like it was going to work so I gave it one last big pop with my 4# sledge - more out of frustration than with any hope of success.

Well, the darn assembly - hub, drum, puller, clamps and block all flew off of the car about a foot! Good think I got my sandaled foot out of the way in time. What a wonderful surprise. I'm off to take the assemblies in to the brake guy for the rebuild and turning.

Thanks for all your help - please forward this to Mike for me to thank him also. The support of you guys in the club is invaluable. I didn't post this directly to the site because I wanted to include these photos to you and haven't yet done that on the site. Feel free to transfer this to the site if you wish.


Thanks again,
Neal




Neal's hub puller set-up

--Tom

With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.

Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International

See pix of 1509A here: mbcurl.me/YCSE

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02 Jul 2009 23:00 #13916 by Tom_Parkinson
Replied by Tom_Parkinson on topic Hub/Brake Drum removal
YAY!

Neal reports SUCCESS with his hub removal. Hardened steel parts for his
puller, heat, and a prrsuasive Kabanger swung with vigor, and he passes along his thanks to all ACD-ers who gave him input and benefit of experience.

With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.

Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International

See pix of 1509A here: mbcurl.me/YCSE

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28 Jun 2009 13:40 #13863 by Tom_Parkinson
Replied by Tom_Parkinson on topic Hub/Brake Drum removal
Hi,

I like the idea of a locking three-jaw puller for this job. Three jaws prevent the puller from lopping over to one side as it is being tightened up. The locking feature should keep it on the ring of the hub. Also available online at www.use-enco.com , pages 1032-1033.

I also would consider a bearing puller accessory such as below. I bought one of these years ago and have cranked it up to incredible forces as needed. Not cheap either. It has one disadvantage--it can start to tilt to one side as you are reefing on it. The three jaw puller won't tilt. This puller is available at McMaster.com's catalogue, page 1050, from Motion Industries, or many other outlets. You have to order the bearing puller accessory along with the push-pull puller.

Pusher-puller with bearing accessory:



--Tom

With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.

Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International

See pix of 1509A here: mbcurl.me/YCSE

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28 Jun 2009 03:17 #13860 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Hub/Brake Drum removal
Hi Neal, I think I would try a three arm gear puller with the arms hooked over the ring that the wheel seats against. I use Posilock pullers that lock the arms so they don't slip off where they are hooked. You could use a impact wrench also but be careful because the air is much stronger than the part. I would put pressure on it with the puller and then use heat if the pressure doesn't move it. Also if you are using heat be ready to get out of the way if it pops off, or catch it with leather gloves on as stated earlier. I have found that enough effort succeeds if you try long enough. Good luck. I think Sears now sells Posilock pullers if you want to see what they look like. They are not inexpensive.
CORDially Mike

Mike Huffman

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  • Tom_Parkinson
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27 Jun 2009 17:58 #13850 by Tom_Parkinson
Replied by Tom_Parkinson on topic 1930 Auburn Hub Removal
Members who are watching this thread might like to see what Neal is up against. His pix are posted below.







I have forwarded these pix to Mike, and I sent my thoughts to Neal. Any members have suggestions, or perhaps the right puller for this application?

--Tom

With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.

Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International

See pix of 1509A here: mbcurl.me/YCSE

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  • Tom_Parkinson
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27 Jun 2009 13:55 #13848 by Tom_Parkinson
Replied by Tom_Parkinson on topic Hub/Brake Drum removal
Hi Neal,

I, and I assume Mike, assumed that the hub was integrel with the brake drum. In that case the lug bolt/studs come through the hub from inside and are exposed for the lug nuts to attach to. If the hub on this car doesn't have the studs coming through the drum/hub assembly then things change a little bit.

Silly question: Have you backed off the brake shoes?

If the car uses wheel mounting bolts rather than nuts, ie, there are no studs, then the puller can be attached to the hub/drum with the wheel mounting bolts.

Can you post pics of this stubborn assembly AND the one you successfully removed ? Photo posting instructions (courtesy of Bill Hummel) are in the GALLERY section accessible from the acdclub home page.

If you prefer, (posting pix here is complicated until you're used t it), just email me a photo of the recalcitrant assembly and I will forward it to Mike for his input. I will also post it with proposed solutions, and I am sure Mike will respond also. Email me at [email protected]. I am in town working on the LaSalle brakes and the Cord today (Sat 06/27), and I'll check my email often.

Never fear--your club will help you succeed with this thing! In the meantime, be patient, and "first do no harm." There IS an answer.

:)

--Tom

With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.

Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International

See pix of 1509A here: mbcurl.me/YCSE

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  • Neal Ziff
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27 Jun 2009 04:29 #13844 by Neal Ziff
Replied by Neal Ziff on topic Hub/Brake Drum removal
Mike and Tom,
Just saw the pic of the puller Tom posted after send my latest post. The one question I've got how it bolts to the hub. The only bolts on the surface of the hub are the ones that go through to hold the hub to the drum - and they have nuts from behind which are not accessible until it's pulled. I'll look at it again in the morning in case I'm missing something. Keep the advice coming.
Neal

Neal
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1930 8-95 Cabriolet

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  • Neal Ziff
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27 Jun 2009 04:18 #13843 by Neal Ziff
Replied by Neal Ziff on topic Hub/Brake Drum removal
Hi Mike,
I'm using a screw type puller which is set onto the axle shaft and the puller arms each have a 5/8 hole into which I have set bolts which I've located into the 2 opposing holes in the hub. Once I've applied pressure using the puller I've tried rapping on the end of the puller screw and also around the outside of the hub. I've also tried quick heating the hub with a torch. Needless to say - so far no luck. I'm hoping I'll go out there tomorrow morning and find the hub/drum laying on the floor

Neal
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1930 8-95 Cabriolet

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  • Tom_Parkinson
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27 Jun 2009 03:48 #13842 by Tom_Parkinson
Replied by Tom_Parkinson on topic Hub puller
Hi Neal--

Mike is, as always, right. I have the type of hub puller that Mike referred to, and I have used it often. It is THE tool for this job. A picture's worth a thousand words, so I found a photo on-line for you.

Heavy-Duty hub puller



You may be able to rent it, but if you have any other pre-60's or so cars you might as well just buy one of these. Plus, you'll need it again to service brakes on your car in the future. Over the years I've pulled hubs off of about everything I have owned: Studebakers, Fords, Chevys, Willys, Cadillacs, Buicks, even a ghastly old Rambler. It's really the ONLY practical way to get a tapered-shaft hub off.

BTW, Use a heavy hammer on the anvil--3# or more. A heavy hammer will move the anvil whilst a light hammer will just peen the surface over. You beat on the anvil, re-setting it horizontal as it rotates, until Ma calls you in for lunch. Skip the soup and keep hammering on the anvil. Then you hear a loud PING!!! and suddenly the hub is loose, the puller sorta sags into its component pieces, the hub and puller fall down on to your toes which you neglected to keep out of the way off to the side, and you're all done but the hollering.

When re-installing the hub use the big old axle shaft nut to pull the hub onto the axle. Taper surfaces should be clean and dry. When you have it right, tighten the nut a bit more only as much as needed to get your cotter pin through one of the tracks in the castle nut and axle shaft. UNLIKE bearing-mounted hubs, such as you have in the front, do NOT back the nut off to get the cotter pin through the castle nut and axle. If you do, you'll find you'll shear off the axle/hub key when you go into reverse and you will be pulling off the hub again, this time at the side of the road.

You can get one of these pullers at most auto parts places, on Ebay (about $130.00 + postage--it's heavy), or at www.tooltopia.com . You really should get one for your shop. It's a last-a-lifetime tool, and you WILL use it again.

Good luck, and remember: if it isn't FUN, why the heck are you doing it? :D

--Tom

With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.

Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International

See pix of 1509A here: mbcurl.me/YCSE

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  • mikespeed35
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27 Jun 2009 02:52 #13840 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Hub/Brake Drum removal
I have seen axle shafts that have twisted, thus the key way is not straight any more but twisted. There is a puller that bolts to the wheel bolts and pushes against the axle. It has a knock off type screw that you beat with a hammer to tighten. This is the type puller that is usually used on rear wheels. It sounds like you may be using a gear puller on the outside of the brake drum. They are not near as effective as the puller I mentioned above.
CORDially Mike

Mike Huffman

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  • Neal Ziff
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26 Jun 2009 04:32 #13830 by Neal Ziff
Hub/Brake Drum removal was created by Neal Ziff
Got my master cylinder rebuilt by a great place in Upland CA. Karp's Brake Service. Was able to easily remove front hubs, drums, cylinders, shoes, etc. and get them refurbished by the same shop. The rears are turning out to be more of a challenge. As opposed to the front, the rear are set on the tapered, keyed end of the drive shaft. One of the rears came off very easily with a gear puller. The other however refuses to budge. I have tried heat to outside of the hub, along with tremendous pressure with the puller. Also have tried rapping on the end of the shaft and hub with a hammer. Still no luck.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Neal

Neal
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