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Re-assembling Cord 1509 A Westchester
- 1748 S
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Gary Parsons
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Bill Coye
Westchester 2240A
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CORDiallyMike
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For the windshield make a pattern using your frames. The frames are not all the same size. So one size does not fit all. The easiest thing to do is to take the frames to the glass shop and have them cut the glass (based on the frame) and install it. That way if they break the glass installing it, it's their problem. Also if it leaks you can take it back to them.
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That's the plan. Old rear window glass is under sized, was probably cut from a Hollywood pattern and windshield glass is long gon, so patterns have been ordered from Stan.
Bill Coye
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Bring your old glass or a pattern to any auto glass place and they can cut you a new piece. It is just a piece of clear flat glass.
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If you haven't bought your glass yet don't use these guys. I bought driver's window glass about the time of your post with relatively good response. I ordered windshield and rear window glass from them in late May and after many follow-up emails and phone calls (actually spoke to someone both calls) I have nothing nor is there any sign that there is any life in my order. Have cancelled and am looking for someone else.
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2. From pictures I have seen, the glass should be clear, not tinted. Correct ???
Thanks,
---Tom
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
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With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
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In your collection of pictures I noticed the wooden beams that run inside the roof were missing above the driver and front seat passenger. Have you been able to replace these sections ? They are needed for the strength of the roof plus the headlining is fixed to it. Where are you up to with your headlining ? I have a full size drawing of the wire bows that are stitched into the fabric.
Attached are some pictures showing the completed wooden framing.
T cockerell
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With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
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My headliner was removed but I still have it in my garage rafters. Have not seen it in probably 40 years when I put it up there. I do know of those wire bows sewn into the liner too. I think but not sure mine has the leather piping colored to match the exterior car color. Being a bustle trunk beverly I have the gray outside and the blue wool tuck n roll interior. My car is nearly the same car as Randy Ema has. He like black walls and I like white wall tires. Bout the only difference in cars appearances too.
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(Gary: 1728 S--you may want to make note of this oddity for your restoration.)
I just spent a VERY informative hour or so learning about headliners from the 1973 Newsletters. The disk of past issues is priceless. While surfing the upholstery articles I found a great article on adjusting the Wagner-Lockheed brakes.
Anyway, I drew some conclusions about the headliner. Conclusion # 1: an old fat man will not be doing this squat and bend work inside the car. Conclusion #2: the 810/812 headliner metal bows are uniquely installed inside the piping that separates the cloth panels. Every other headliner in the history of the world has its metal rods strung through a pocket formed on the roof-side of the headliner above the piping. That means that a mass fabricator likely will not be able to make this headliner for me unless I send him the rods, carefully numbered. I'm a little (actually, a lot) loathe to do that.
I also found that the windlace for 1509A is the wire-on style, which actually looks fairly easy to work with. (Oh, I'll regret saying that!)
Well, I have a vintage sewing machine. I have the metal bows. I can order wool broadcloth fabric and wire-in windlace in matching colors. I know how to measure.
I just need a pattern. Anyone know a source?
And likely a LOT of beer.
And the process goes on...
--Tom
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
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I received a quote from SMSautofabrics.com with a quote for a headliner to match original.
Has anyone dealt with these folks, and if, so, any recommendations?
--Tom
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International
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I am looking for a headliner maker or a headliner pattern for 1509A, a 1936 Cord Westchester 4-door sedan renumbered as a 37. Any leads will be appreciated.
--Tom
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International
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Cord 1509 A is winter-stored at the warehouse. These photos were on the ACD cars page of facebook--they have many details useful for re-assembly. Here's the link to my piece of the cloud:
1drv.ms/1OHaAGw
--Tom
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International
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Well, the calendar says that winter is here, and I hate scraping snow and ice at 5:30 in the morning. So the Cord is going once again to the warehouse for four months or so to make room in my home garage for my daily driver. There's plenty to do here over the winter, however, without the car actually being here.
It will come back home in March or April.
--Tom
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
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Hi Tom, just checked my '36, the anchor pin (pivot pin) is positioned approx 10 minutes forward at the bottom, ie, the wheel cylinder sits approx 10 minutes towards the rear of the car. Hope this helps.
This is EXACTLY the confirmation I was looking for! I will reassemble these brakes with no further qualms.
Thank you so very much!!!
--Tom
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
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1936 Cord 810
1927 Cadillac 314 Phaeton
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Thank you for the link. I saw these on Ebay. They sure look like mine. However, the pix don't tell how they end up oriented when mounted.
I have concluded that there is only one way that these things will go on with the cylinders facing the correct way: to the front. I'll leave them be and hope that the weight of all of the accoutrements will level them out.
--Tom
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
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Rendering Error in layout Message/Item: Kunena\Forum\Libraries\BBCode\KunenaBBCodeLibrary::renderEbayLayout(): Argument #1 ($ItemID) must be of type int, string given, called in /home/827734.cloudwaysapps.com/wqvptpacqq/public_html/libraries/kunena/src/BBCode/KunenaBBCode.php on line 304. Please enable debug mode for more information.
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The plates do bolt to the knuckles, but the mounting is a rectangular pattern at an angle to vertical. I switched them L for R, and while that improved the angle, it also sent the wheel cylinders facing the wrong way: the large end of the step cylinders toward the rear and the hose inlets to the front. I believe that on the Wagner-Lockheed system the longer shoe and the large end of the wheel cylinder are at the front. (On the Bendix system, the small shoe does to the front.)
Here is a pic of a pair of Wagner backing plates that were for sale on Ebay a while back.
I have not found and stamping or marking indicating "Left" or "Right" on the plates.
Can someone with a '36 take a look on their car and tell me if their wheel cylinders are somehow located at 12:00 and the anchor pin at 6:00?
Thank you,
--Tom
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
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Rick Rowland
Danville, VA
1937 Cord 812 Custom Beverly
1931 Cadillac 355A Convertible Coupe
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I posted the pix to photobucket.com. It's free. That site will generate and copy to your clipboard a URL for you when you click on your uploaded pic. Paste that URL into your message on the ACD forum. The pix will appear on your ACD page as long as you keep them on Photobucket.
This is the "Old Way" of posting pix on the ACD site. Apparently it's still the ONLY way that works.
BTW--do you have a 36/Wagner brakes Cord? Where on the face of a clock is your anchor pin located?
--Tom
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
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Rick Rowland
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1937 Cord 812 Custom Beverly
1931 Cadillac 355A Convertible Coupe
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Members: No input on the odd angle of these 1936 Wagner-Lockheed brakes? If I have something wrong here, I'd like to correct it before I assemble the whole front end.
--Tom
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
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I tried to post this and it just disappeared, so I am re-writing as best as I recall. Now I know to save my text before posting or previewing...
It has been heavy on my mind that the Lockheed front brake backing plates on 1509A just, well, don't look right. They are rotated VERY far off the desired position of the brake shoe anchor pin being at 6:00 and the wheel cylinder at 12:00.
"So, dummy," I thought. "You put the backing plates on the wrong sides--left for right and vice-versa. So I switched them. That does make them appear little less out of whack, but it also puts the large end of the wheel cylinder facing to the rear, instead of the front. My understanding of the Lockheed system is that the front shoe is the longer shoe and the big end of the wheel cylinder is supposed to face forward--the reverse of the Bendix system. Also, the change makes the brake line inlet face forward, not backward.
This arrangement doesn't make sense to me. So I switched them back.
The engine is not in 1509A right now, and I expect that 800 pounds of iron plus fenders, hood, and fluids will rotate the trailing arms considerably, but it will take a LOT of rotating to get the anchor pin and wheel cylinder around to 6:00 and 12:00. It just "looks wrong" to me, as well as to others to whom I have pointed it out.
Am I missing something obvious here? Are the trailing arms correct? Or is it all OK and will level out when the engine goes back in the car?
Here are a couple of pix, two from the last time the engine was installed.
Members, is my Geometry messed up? Any input on this?
--Tom
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International
See pix of 1509A here: mbcurl.me/YCSE
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Well, there's some good news on the re-assembly front. We have a brand-spanking-new four post lift coming to the shop in the next two weeks. This will make all of the under-car work possible and will jump-start all the re-assembly work.
We looked around a lot concerning the lift and decided to buy it through Advance. The Advance tech guy was unwilling to sell it to us until he was able to inspect our facility and verify that we had sufficient room for it and a solid enough floor. I was impressed with that. He also inquired as to what vehicles we would be lifting with it and advised that we get the standard sized life--not extra wide or extra long: apparently those features are desirable for larger service vehicles than the pickup trucks that we run.
I was impressed that he sold DOWN to our needs rather than UP to maximizing his profit on the sale.
I wish I had a lift 40 years ago, but I'll be happy to have it now!
--Tom
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International
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I'd call it "more interesting things to do". <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->mikespeed35 wrote: In my experience there is no such thing as "No Problems"
Cordially Mike
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Cordially Mike
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It's a big job. The entire top shaft of the transmission has to come out. The Sync hub gas to be machined back and the main shaft sleeve has to be machined to make room for the thicker thrust washer.
If the transmission is sitting on the floor figure about 10 plus hours. Hopefully you have a lathe available to do the machine work. IF the trans is in the car I figure 10 to 15 hours to pull the trans and 15 to 20 hours to put it back in, providing there are no problems.
Jim
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I'm going to check in my 80's ACD Club Transmission Manual to see how big a job it is to replace that thrust washer.
--Tom
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
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The 3rd gear thrust washer is B60773 and is steel. I don't see a listing in the parts book for E11045 so I'm not sure what part that is.
Jim
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I also suspect it is the thin one. However, with the light use 1509A is going to see--likely none in my lifetime and very little in my heirs--I am not sure it's worth the effort to replace it.
--Tom
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
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I have been digging through paper work from the early 1950's concerning my dear old 1509A.
Apparently my father or brother ordered a part number "E11045 bronze thrust bearing" for the transmission rebuild from Auburn Cord Parts Co.
Does anyone know if that would be the original too-thin thrust bearing?
Whatever it is, it's been in the transmission since about 1955 and hasn't worn out yet. Of course, the transmission hasn't turned yet...
--Tom
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
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What a BEAUTIFUL break in the day's weather for the parade! 1509A and I were there, she being behind a Chevy pickup truck, me driving said truck. Many members looked over my fits-like-a-glove dual master cylinder set up for the brakes which will require no alteration in linkages and pedals, et al. It's an easy conversion if you are re-plumbing your brake system anyway.
Admittedly, it's easier when the car is disassembled (like mine) and you can work from above.
But what a beautiful break in the weather! I hope everyone enjoyed the day as much as I did!
--Tom
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International
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Here are pix of 1509A in 1950. The hyperlink won't post correctly, so you'll have to copy and paste.
Perhaps some of the details may be helpful to other 810-812 owners.
onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=20ACF37336...ithint=folder%2c.jpg
--Tom
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International
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I have three--make that FOUR-- questions concerning windows:
1. How is the windshield glass installed to the steel windshield frames? I have assumed that a glass-setting tape is used, but of what thickness?
2. How is the door glass installed to the glass channels in the regulators? Same setting tape? What thickness?
3. How are the rear windows set in place? I see gaskets from Steele or Metro, but are rubber gaskets correct?
4. How are the fuzzies (I have many feet of new Cord fuzzie material bought 30 years ago) installed to the doors and/or the window frames? Are there vertical channels to be installed? Does anyone have a drawing of what goes where, and how it's all attached?
MANY THANKS to those who sent get-well wishes! Now I have to get the CORD well also! I still want to drive this thing!
--Tom
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
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At long last, it appears that this never-to-end winter may have run its course. 1509A is coming home this week to the home garage from its winter warehouse storage spot. Work will start anew!
--Tom
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International
See pix of 1509A here: mbcurl.me/YCSE
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