rules on recertifying a car

With all due respect, this has nothing specifically to do with 810/812 Cords. Why is it still in this Forum and not Topics?

I was under the impression, from the movement of a certain Duesenberg forum post a few weeks back, that administrators were not allowing complaints about Club policy in the public side of our forums. Or, as I said then, maybe I'm just special. <!-- s:twisted: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_twisted.gif" alt=":twisted:" title="Twisted Evil" /><!-- s:twisted: -->

Do other clubs of the classic era certify members cars?

joel

thanks.

so i have further questions.

the Marque Historians and Certification Supervisor.

they are individuals right.......???

they are not members of the Board? or are they?

i don't think there is a sub committee of the Board which deals with certification issues correct?

so these individual members just make recommendations and the whole board says yea or neh.

so in the end, it is the board which is de facto approving or disapproving the certifications.

just because the certification supervisor is recommending something, if the board is approving his recommendations. then the board is surely taking responsbility for the decisions.

what am i missing here?

so the board must be able to answer our questions about this issue......

has there ever been a situation where a previously certified car has been de certified as a result of a change in ownership......as one of our good members is suggesting?

and if it has happened in the past. how many times has it happened?

as i am now worried that all the people who think they have a certified car on their hands....may not......

unless they have those papers in the current ownership name, it appears there is a chance they may be sitting on a car that the board is intending to deny recertification.

it would sure be nice to know ahead of time which cars the board (or as you suggest the Marque Specialist or Certification Supervisior) is targetting to "de-certify".

if there is a feeling that "some mistakes have been made in the past".....is it not incumbant on the board to call for a thorough review of all past certifications to sort out which they feel are good and which they they feel are a problem.

advise the members of such. and contact those who have a problem.

lets just deal with the issue upfront and forthright. i am sure the members would appreciate that.......

rather than just wait for ownership change requests before making the decision....after the buyer of a car has relied on the club's certification papers.....perhaps incorrectly.....and then pulling the certification.

especially if the requirement will soon be to have them certified before they are judged best of marque or show.

i expect the latest idea of one (former?) board member, having to prove your certification after the judging takes place (an idea which others have commented on elsewhere in this forum) will, if passed by the board on november 12th, also incorporate the idea that you would need to have your certification in the correct name.......

just another reason to fix the certification system first....before we start relying on it to judge the cars.

i should have dressed up as a broken record for halloween.....ha ha.

brent

Brent,

Boo!
First off the Board does not certify or de-certify. The Board votes on recommendations from the Marque Historians and the Certification Supervisor concerning certification.

RULES ON RECERTIFYING A CAR

the following post was recently made in another thread which has been locked by the moderator of these forums and therefore could not be responded too by any of us........

we were asked by the moderator to start a new thread. so here we go.......

the following comment can be found in the 810/812 cord area as part of a response to a member who wanted to change an FB engined cord to an FC engined cord and wondered if it was possible.

of course we told him it was possible, at quite an expense, but that it might be better to keep things original for future value and it seems that he agrees.....a great win-win for the club and the member.

anyhow, out of that thread came this comment from a member of the board:

"You are correct in saying that a lot of cars in the past have slipped through some cracks in the certification process. Well, as you know, every time a car gets sold, it has to get re-certified. We have the opportunity at that time to fix some past errors, and we are doing that. Not all cars will be re-certified."

i am not sure about the rest of you....but this is totally news to me.

i did not realize that it was a requirement to have a car recertified. quite the contrary, i thought the process was that you send in your name and address and the certification would be re-issued in your name.

i did not realize that a car had to be recertified every time that its ownership changed.

i also did not know that upon making this request, the board is taking the opportunity to pull certifications on cars they previously certified.

i would like to know from other members if you have ever had this happen to you.....

seems to me that such a policy would be fraught with legal complications.

imagine you are trying to find a correct supercharged 812 cabriolet - hopefully one of the 64 originals.

but of course you realize that the certification does not guarantee you the car is original. you would virtually have to know the ownership history to almost new in order to be sure of that.....but at least it will tell you that all the parts are ACD and the serial numbers seem to be in the right range.

so your seller sends you the certification papers. you rely on them to pay really big money for the car.

you then send them into the club to have the name changed as you are a new owner.....

and the club says oh.....we have identified this as a car that we don't think should have been certified before. so we won't certify it for you, even though we certified it for the last guy.

you ask the club, was there any notice provided to the previous owner that you felt his certification was incorrect? was there some way that i could have checked with the club to see if they were planning to stand by their previous certification?

i guess i would like to ask the certification team.....has the club ever not recertified a car?

and if so how many times has that happened?

when someone asks to have the certification papers put into the new owners name......what happens?

does the new owner have to bring back the car to have it looked at by the certification team?

i did not think that was the requirement right now? i thought the documents were just put into the new owners name simply by asking.

but now i am thinking. if the purists are trying to be so pure. would you not have to see the car again......to be sure that nothing had changed on the car......before you changed the name on the certification.

is this a policy approved by the board? does the board have to be involved to "de-certify a car". if so, is the owner notified in advance of such a decision? what are the rules surrounding de-certification?

what about the members handbook. which lists all certification numbers on all the cars.....is this reliable information?

let me give you a real life example. my 1937 cord s/c cabriolet was certified about five owners back. the name has never been changed. i have a copy of the full package in my file. i definitely relied on the certfication in buying my car and paying the price that i did. in the 2011/12 members handbook, the certification number on that package now resides beside my name and my car, even though i have never had the name changed.

are you guys saying this certification is no longer valid? because its in a previous owners name? does not seem to be what the members handbook is saying......

that previous certifications need to be renewed by a new owner otherwise they are not valid?

as with many other things in the certification area of this club....things do not seem to be very clear.......or perhaps as usual i am very mixed up.

could someone on the board post to this forum and in the newsletter the club rules for renewing certifications and this sort of decision to take them away and when it might happen and how?

thanks

brent

ps. again. keep in mind that up for discussion at the nov 12th board meeting is the idea that to win your class in judging.....the new rule will now be that your car must be certified. i expect that would mean certified in "your name". so before you plan to take your car to the show. you better be sure the certification papers that you have are in your name!!!!!

i am really concerned now about just how all this certification stuff works....there seems to be alot of little issues to get sorted out before we start using it as a basis of judging....just my two cents as you already know......

and i really don't think all of these potential issues have been properly communicated in the newsletter to all of those readers who don't follow this forum....or proper comment obtained....before any decision of the board has been made on this issue.

all we know at this point is that its on the agenda as unfinished business at the november 12th board meeting....which feels scary like halloween to me!!