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Duesenbergs in Argentina
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landmark wrote:
alsancle wrote: As with all auction buying you really need to know what you are doing before you show up and bid. I have some warm personal memories of this car and I think the history is really cool, but perhaps not all buyers would feel the same way. Will be interesting to see how it does. I hope the Mormon Meteor style blower is still on the car.
Hello,
100% agreement with your thoughts.
Regarding to the B.J.-announcement photos, it looks (to me) that it would be the "original" two-carb blower "on board". But I am not an expert...
Here is the link to the B.-J. photos www.barrett-jackson.com/applicat ... 48&aid=525
Robbie Marenzi mentioned that the original "shortened" chassis was replaced by chassis 2606, if I got it right, that chassis originally depended to a J(N?) Rollston Convertible Sedan (J-581).
At the Curtright-website that car (J-581) is stated as "destroyed" with a questionmark. Does anyone knows what happened to that car? Accident, fire or wrecking?
Cheers
Matt
Hello,
B.J. stated the car as sold for a price of $1.43 million (incl. buyers premium)
Cheers
Matt
Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut
Wilhelm Busch
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- Bob Roller
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It means Vehicle Identification Number or Wagen Identitat Nummer.
The bad spelling on the name "Duesenberg"may be due to a failing
educational system or plain LAZY people--Faul Leute,Ja!
Bob Roller
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Chris Summers wrote: Robbie, the car has for the last few years been owned by a collector who kept it at the Candy Store in California.
Engine J-581 went into the Dietrich Convertible Berline originally powered by J-434. The car still exists in Chicago, and is presently undergoing restoration.
Can Randy or someone else please clear up what chassis the LeBaron J-292 has presently, and whether the blower is original? I did some digging on that car last year and couldn't clear up either point. Most people who were around when it was being restored aren't around any longer.
Hello,
the BJ announcement tell not much facts about the chassis, only that the car has the VIN 2158, but what does that mean in this "case"?
- the "original" and at a time shortened chassis, is now "repaired" (relonged) and mounted? or
- is it (as mentioned) chassis No 2606? or
- is it maybe a (VIN numbered) repro-frame/chassis (maybe with some original numbered parts added)? :rolleyes:
And why does BJ always call that car a DEUSENBERG in the car-discribing text?
Cheers
Matt
Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut
Wilhelm Busch
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On page 205 of Roe's book is a picture of this car and it was listed as heavily damaged in a fire and the engine and other parts were used in
other cars.
Bob Roller
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Engine J-581 went into the Dietrich Convertible Berline originally powered by J-434. The car still exists in Chicago, and is presently undergoing restoration.
Can Randy or someone else please clear up what chassis the LeBaron J-292 has presently, and whether the blower is original? I did some digging on that car last year and couldn't clear up either point. Most people who were around when it was being restored aren't around any longer.
Chris Summers
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I THINK Fred Roe's book lists J581 as being nearly destroyed in a fire and perhaps the engine is now in another car.As I remember,it was a Rollston CS with some Cadillac styling.Maybe Chris or someone can clarify this.
Bob Roller
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alsancle wrote: As with all auction buying you really need to know what you are doing before you show up and bid. I have some warm personal memories of this car and I think the history is really cool, but perhaps not all buyers would feel the same way. Will be interesting to see how it does. I hope the Mormon Meteor style blower is still on the car.
Hello,
100% agreement with your thoughts.
Regarding to the B.J.-announcement photos, it looks (to me) that it would be the "original" two-carb blower "on board". But I am not an expert...
Here is the link to the B.-J. photos www.barrett-jackson.com/applicat ... 48&aid=525
Robbie Marenzi mentioned that the original "shortened" chassis was replaced by chassis 2606, if I got it right, that chassis originally depended to a J(N?) Rollston Convertible Sedan (J-581).
At the Curtright-website that car (J-581) is stated as "destroyed" with a questionmark. Does anyone knows what happened to that car? Accident, fire or wrecking?
Cheers
Matt
Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut
Wilhelm Busch
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Auction description: "Photos indicate that, at that time, the car was in rather dilapidated condition and was reportedly modified for racing with a shortened chassis and updated coachwork. After tending to the various body and chassis issues, the car was sold....."
They don't seem to think it's important to mention that the chassis was replaced with 2606 and that a new rear section of the body was built?
Robbie Marenzi
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The spares are definitely worn out, maybe the scanned pictures do not show properly, but there?s no cover on them, left wheel even has threads coming through the rubber, on the other hand, the four tyres on the car look new.
Can anybody tell me about the Ray Day pistons and connecting rods, did all Duesenberg J engines have them, or were they available on special order or maybe an aftermarket option?
Robbie Marenzi
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I agree - definitely covers on those spares.
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Is there any indication of when these pictures were taken?
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The article that accompanies the pictures has many inaccuracies, like stating the car was a 1932 Fernandez & Darrin convertible coupe, when we know it was a 1929 Le Baron Sweep Panel. It also says it was called Ray Day because it had high performance Ray Day pistons, connecting rods and camshafts, could this be true, did any, or did all Duesenbergs have these pistons, rods and camshafts?
Robbie Marenzi
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That engine stands out like a goose egg in a coal bucket. As I said,keep that picture because I have another one.
Bob
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Justin
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1932 Auburn 12-160A Sedan
1933 Auburn 12-161A Sedan
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I sent you a PM with the address. I'll scan and post the picture when I get it.
thanks!
A.J.
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Btw, this photo hasn't seen the light of day in probably 40 years.
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How soon after it was new did it become what is shown in Robbie's picture?
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RandyEma wrote: 292 photo is fantastic and yes there are pictures of 292 as found. Randy
Randy, am I correct in that the as found body was much different then the above pictured configuration? My dad always thought it was pretty cool the way it came up from South America and that maybe Ted should have left it alone. I think these days that might have happened but back in the 60s there wasn't the same appreciation of racing we have now.
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Robbie Marenzi
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Has what seems to be a 1935 Chrysler grille and some strange device protruding through the hood.
Robbie Marenzi
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Can you post the picture I sent to you? It seems there is a difference or maybe senility is overtaking me.
Bob
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Bob Roller wrote: Wasn't J275 one of the fabric bodied cars like J251 and as I recall.belonged to a man by the name of Resnick or Renic in California? It was rebodied into a DCP and painted yellow and white. I heard that Toyota had bought it to study the engine and to see how so much power could be gotten from such a low compression ratio.
I think I saw J292 at Auburn in 1986 and was told it came up from South America as a basket case. I also recall the intake manifold looked like it came from a plumbing shop and I THINK it had a supercharger. I saw it again in 1992 at Auburn and they couldn't get it started to use in the parade.
Bob Roller
Bob, J292 was Ted Billing's car. He purchased it around 1965 from South America via Nyak NY. My dad was standing here when the car came off the trailer. It was actually very complete except for 1 thing, the frame was shortened and it had a speedster style body from the back edge of the front doors. It was actually very stylish and well done and my dad told Ted he should leave it alone. My understanding is that the car had been used extensively for racing. The cowl, front doors, fenders, hoods, grills shell, etc, where all there. The engine had a dual carb blower on it. This was at least 10 years before Leo started reproducing them. Ted was told by Ray Wolfe that this engine was one of the spares to the Mormon Meteor that has been shipped down to South America in the 1930s. I have a bunch of pictures somewhere that I will try to dig up and post.
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Yes, A.J., that was Ted Billings's car, the one you remember as black and gold, I think?
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I think I saw J292 at Auburn in 1986 and was told it came up from South America as a basket case. I also recall the intake manifold looked like it came from a plumbing shop and I THINK it had a supercharger. I saw it again in 1992 at Auburn and they couldn't get it started to use in the parade.
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That sounds a lot like the history of the mostly reproduced body currently on J-275, also a LeBaron sweep-panel phaeton (where is that car today, by the way?).Chris Summers wrote: Snarky irony, West...snarky irony.
And yes, that is J-292, although it now has chassis 2606 and the body is partially a replica. The original body was badly butchered and the original frame shortened while the car was still in Argentina.
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And yes, that is J-292, although it now has chassis 2606 and the body is partially a replica. The original body was badly butchered and the original frame shortened while the car was still in Argentina.
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Based on the second part of the second sentence, I'd say it's slightly more than "likely" that he never saw it.Chris Summers wrote: This car has been referred to by some as the Tom Mix Car. It's worth repeating that he not only never owned the car, he likely never saw it, as he'd been dead for a decade when this body was built.
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This car has been referred to by some as the Tom Mix Car. It's worth repeating that he not only never owned the car, he likely never saw it, as he'd been dead for a decade when this body was built. The only Duesenberg Mix is connected with was a Model A roadster that is not known to survive.
Photos of the car below were supplied by the O'Quinn Collection which owned the car as of a year ago. I don't know if it's been sold yet.
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I am thinking that is a "J" that has been "reclothed" to look like some sort of GM car and I still think "Buick".
Chris tells me that one "J"was rebodied to look like an Olds and that it was at one time a Beverly. I think it is in Elberts book. I once saw a cartoon depicting some bonehead rebodying a "J" to make it look like a VW Beetle so who knows what may have been done in other countries with these cars.
The more I look at the car in these photos,the better I like it.
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There is also a chance that the radiator shell shown may have been on that chassis originally. What the body and fenders are,I have no idea but it is in the idiom of the early 1940's,maybe a Buick convertible sedan. Is it possible that this car may be one of the untraced ones??
Anyhow,what ever it is makes for some very interesting speculation and proves that the whole story has yet to be told concerning these very unusual cars.
Bob Roller
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