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Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

  • silverghost
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04 Jun 2013 00:28 #25330 by silverghost
Replied by silverghost on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
In spite of the fact that it is an original factory supercharged model "SJ"~~~

It still is an unrestored original car that has only had a quickie cosmetic partial body paint job with a very plain- unexciting closed four-door body style in my opinion.

From earlier period photos that still survive ~~~ That now polished aluminum beltline molding treatment it is now sporting was just not very long ago stripped & polished during it's quickie cosmetic paint job~~~Just for this auction I suspect ?
Older extant B&W photos in various older Duesenberg books show a painted beltline trim.
Also that polished trim over the windshield on the roof appears to have been added.

I just wonder how well it actually runs & drives mechanically ?

You will not see this car winning any concours show event soon~~~ without a total proper frame-off restoration & proper chassis painting & overall car detailng .
I see two painted exhaust pipe manifold connectors & two rusty units~~~
Also non original fuel line hoses & clamps.
and much much more wrong~~~ just on the auction link photos.

Also~~~
It is now no longer a totally original "survivor car" since it's new cosmetic quickie re-paint.

Don't get me wrong~~~
It's still a nice car~~~but in this present condition a $$$ 1.2 Million car ? ? ?
REALLY ? ? ?

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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  • landmark
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03 Jun 2013 20:54 #25328 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

Chris Summers wrote: High bid of $1.2 million reported for J-514.


Thank you, Chris

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  • Bob Roller
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03 Jun 2013 20:48 #25327 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic J514
Refer again to Barnum.

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03 Jun 2013 20:20 #25326 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
High bid of $1.2 million reported for J-514.

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02 Jun 2013 16:22 #25319 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic 2 million $ car
Only if Barnum was right would it or any other car be a $2,000,000 car.

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02 Jun 2013 12:58 #25312 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Brad, keep in mind that Manny and George are in the business of selling cars. I would assume that means if they can "spruce" a car up to make more of a profit they would do that. Dealers provide a service, most especially if they can take trades towards a car you might want to buy. On the other hand, they usually want retail plus since they are in business to make money. You need to keep that in mind when looking at a car they are selling.

Most of us, on the other hand are collectors. Collectors usually make decisions without considering the financial downside but based on our own concepts or more often impulses.

As a general rule, a collector jousting with a dealer over a car is not a fair fight. One is level headed and the other is running on emotion.

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  • silverghost
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01 Jun 2013 15:46 #25306 by silverghost
Replied by silverghost on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Hi Steve~~~

I agree with you about having,and actually using a nice "Driver" type car~~~

My above comment means I just thought that Dragone's pre-auction selling estimate of $1.5--$2. Million might not be that realistic despite the extreme rarity of that original factory superchared SJ ?

I guess we shall see when we eventually hear the final auction hammer price~~~to see if I was correct ?

It's still a nice car~~~~But is it a $ 2 MILLION dollar car ?

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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  • Steve Derus
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01 Jun 2013 15:04 #25305 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
If I were ever fortunate enough to own a Duesenberg, I would not mind owning a car that had less than show quality restoration, since I would want to drive and enjoy the car as much as possible. I would be looking more closely at mechanical condition than cosmetics.

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01 Jun 2013 14:44 #25304 by silverghost
Replied by silverghost on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Just from looking at the auction link on that model SJ does it not appear that the chassis is unrestored and in dire need of proper paint ?

I have seen a number of cars that Manny & George have offered for sale in the past that just had quickie paint jobs applied over a car body that was never dis-assembled to paint it .
One similar example that comes to mind was a bright blue Springfield Rolls~Royce Brewster York Roadster that I went down to the "Classics" event in Atlantic City NJ.
Upon inspection & questions to George Dragone. I soon discovered that this car had received a similar quickie paint job without any body disassemblly . Even the fender welting was painted the very same blue !
The underside of the car was showing it's age as nothing had ever been done to it sice new .
When time came to have it cross the auction block they had to push it across as it refused to start-up.
All the other 25+ carsat this event drove past the auction block under their own power !

A similar quickie paint job on this "SJ" might help explain the ill-fitting hood ? ? ! !
Take a look at the chassis rail photo on their web-link above and you will see what I am speaking about.

What is YOUR opinion ?

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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  • landmark
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01 Jun 2013 11:28 #25302 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

mikespeed35 wrote: What did J-514 sell for?
CORDially Mike


Hello,

does someone know the auction-price for that car?

The estimate (by Dragone) was $ 1.5-2.0 Million.

Cheers

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
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Wilhelm Busch

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  • Steve Derus
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25 May 2013 22:37 #25224 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Auction is on 5/31.

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25 May 2013 22:29 #25223 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
What did J-514 sell for?
CORDially Mike

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23 May 2013 18:08 #25217 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

silverghost wrote: Joel~
That's the Model "J" Murphy I was thinking about~
Thank's for the two great photos of J-345 .
This car is indeed spectacular ; and on my all time top-10 lifetime Classic auto want list.

The very first Hershey auction I spoke about above in the Giant Center happened only weeks after the infamous September 11th New York Terrorist attack.
Sadly because of this tragic American event many autos that Don & Riche had assembled for this auction sold for super-low bargan basement prices.
Dad & I were like "kids in a candy store" at that auction with so many great full Classics.
We were also trying to buy the Rolls ~Royce Phantom II Henley roadster Don had there.
I remember building a plastic Monagram model of that very car as a young child. I still have that very same model.
The first Hershey auction was sadly a real blood-bath for Don & Richie.
I remember also my late father & I seeing, & speaking to, Randy Ema at the auction's preview about this super model "J" we were interested in bidding on.
There were two great model"J" s at this auction.

Thank's Guys~



Hello,

J-345 will be offered by RM auctions @Monterey in August!

www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1060491


Matt

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Wilhelm Busch

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  • Bob Roller
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10 May 2013 16:56 #25165 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic SJ514
Finally,a new definition for insanity,putting something up for sale so you can buy it back.

Bob Roller

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10 May 2013 14:59 #25164 by Bill Hummel
Replied by Bill Hummel on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

silverghost wrote:

Steve Derus wrote: The Duesenberg Murphy town car consigned to BJ appears to have a reserve.


If it car does indeed have a reserve ~~~That would be quite unusual for the B-J auction as for the last half dozen years, or so, ALL cars had to be consigned at B-J Scottsdale with NO reserve~~~or B-J would NOT accept the consignment.
With this No reserve policy B-J always wins as ALL cars sell. ~~~ While seller/consigners often loose their shirt on many of the B-J auction no reserve sales.


What REALLY happens is the seller ends up buying his own car just to keep it. Then he ends up paying BOTH sides of the commissions. Not widely known by the public.

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  • Steve Derus
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09 May 2013 22:27 #25163 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
I agree great looking car with a lot going for it....
original SJ
one of a kind
surviror quality looks excellent
very interesting history. Mrs. Evans must have loved the car to ship it to Europe for use on her trips there.
I've always been an admirer of Dueseys with the polished body accent molding.

I'd guess the hood fit is a fairly simple repair either alignment or adjustment, but then I don't know how the SJ hoods operate.

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  • Bob Roller
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09 May 2013 22:19 #25162 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic J514
Good looking car but the hood should be redone to fit the contour of the radiator shell.

Bob Roller

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09 May 2013 17:04 #25160 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
I'm usually pretty good at hitting the price but this one I feel is impossible.

www.dragoneclassic.com/auctions/ ... erline.htm


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23 Mar 2013 02:22 #24831 by silverghost
Replied by silverghost on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Just a note to update the Howard Hughes past ownershp~

The Tourster was in fact directly sold to Howard Hughes himself who owned Hughes Aircraft Co., and several dozen other large corporations.
My great uncle William Hunter sold this car directly to Hughes as he was a close business associate of Howard. Howard may have titled it in the Aircraft Company name & used company funds to pay for it~~~who knows ?
After all he Owned Hughes Aircraft !
Of all the companies in Hughes empire the Aircraft company was his favorite.
It was said by old Hunter family lore that Hughes drove the car for some time himself before, & early, in the war period , then like every other auto he ever owned he quickly grew tired of it and had Hughes Aircraft Co. use it to tow experimental test airframes & so-called "Gliders" with it's aft coachwork chopped-off !
I often wonder if Hughes Aircraft had any photos of this auto in aircraft towing form with the aft body chopped-off ?
I would sure like to see one !

Over his lifetime Howard Hughes owned dozens of fine autos. He gave several Springfield Rolls~Royce Silver Ghosts, & Phantom I, autos to various girlfriends over the years.

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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  • Chris Summers
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13 Mar 2013 16:32 #24777 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Sorry to get picky, but just in the interest of accuracy - as Randy pointed out when I was doing the description - it was owned by Hughes Aircraft, not Howard himself. The body is a recreation of the original but is entirely new. There was some discussion of an original cowl having been located and used, but photos with the car show new cowl metal and wood. The work was done very nicely and the car is essentially as it was when Brown took delivery.

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13 Mar 2013 15:59 #24776 by West Peterson
Replied by West Peterson on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
The ex-Joe E. Brown/Howard Hughes car. Originally a Tourster, but basically a new body. It was reported in the auction catalog that by 1960, the entire body was gone.

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10 Mar 2013 19:00 #24748 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Right idea, wrong restorer, A.J. Harry Andrews did the body on that one.

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10 Mar 2013 17:58 #24747 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
J-444 is not one of Ted's cars is it? That would explain the price.

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10 Mar 2013 02:28 #24736 by Greg Riley
Replied by Greg Riley on topic RM Duesenberg's
I would have gladly brought either one home to The Garage.




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09 Mar 2013 19:55 #24732 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Hello,

Duesenberg @ RM's Amelia Island auction:

J-530 (S)J Walker CC hammered at $ 4.1 million!

J-444 Derham Tourster sold at (only?) $ 750000


Matt

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Wilhelm Busch

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08 Mar 2013 21:20 #24723 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Hello,

here I have two prices from todays Gooding auction @Amelia Island

J-500 (orig. J-559) Rollston JN Sedan hammered @ $ 540000

J-338? Le Baron Convertible Sedan hammered @ $ 425000


Matt

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Wilhelm Busch

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20 Jan 2013 05:11 #24342 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
J468 Murphy Beverly hammered at BJ for $1.3M, and J-288 Murphy Clearvision was no sale bid to $750k

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19 Jan 2013 19:27 #24341 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
$2.45 million hammer for Murphy Convertible Coupe J-429 / 2446.

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19 Jan 2013 18:11 #24340 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

Chris Summers wrote: Hammered sold at $1.2 million.


Thank you Chris!



Matt

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Wilhelm Busch

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19 Jan 2013 17:09 #24339 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Hammered sold at $1.2 million.

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19 Jan 2013 11:04 #24338 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

landmark wrote: Hello,

next weekend is auction-time in Scottsdale, Arizona.

Two nice "open" J's are offered by Gooding and RM.

www.goodingco.com/car/1933-duese ... ible-coupe

www.rmauctions.com/CarDetails.cf ... CarID=r163

Matt



Hello,

does someone know the auction-result for the Derham Tourster @RM auctions?

Cheers

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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16 Jan 2013 17:39 #24321 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
The Tourster has been in the same family for 50 years.

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  • CraigBirkhold
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16 Jan 2013 03:40 #24317 by CraigBirkhold
Replied by CraigBirkhold on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Lots of nice cars available. :rolleyes:

Craig Birkhold
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15 Jan 2013 21:22 #24316 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Hello,

next weekend is auction-time in Scottsdale, Arizona.

Two nice "open" J's are offered by Gooding and RM.

www.goodingco.com/car/1933-duese ... ible-coupe

www.rmauctions.com/CarDetails.cf ... CarID=r163

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
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Wilhelm Busch

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  • Chris Summers
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23 May 2012 01:12 #22918 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
J-495 / 2513 was bought by a Club member and will likely be seen in Auburn in the near future. It's gone to a nice home.

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20 May 2012 12:16 #22894 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
The Beverly is one of my favorite Model Js, open or closed.

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19 May 2012 19:57 #22889 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Hello,

here is another auction result for a Duesenberg J:

1931 Model J Murphy Beverly (J-495 ?) @Dragone auction Hammerprice was at $ 1.25 Million (plus Buyer Premium) Published estrimate was $ 1.5 - 2 Millions

www.liveauctioneers.com/item/116 ... hy-beverly

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
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Wilhelm Busch

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10 May 2012 00:04 #22802 by Joel
Replied by Joel on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Looks like '49 Plymouth tail lights.

Joel Nystrom
1929 Duesenberg Model J Murphy Convertible Coupe
File Attachment:

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09 May 2012 23:35 #22801 by
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I was just really looking at this car for the first. It is built from a 1946 1947 or 1948 Oldsmobile, Olds front fenders, hood, rear fenders and bumpers front and rear.
K Clark

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09 May 2012 01:59 #22792 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
I don't think the horns or the radiator is going to cool that motor much.
CORDially Mike

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08 May 2012 23:30 #22791 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
It does kinda have a proto-Nudiemobile look to it, doesn't it?

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08 May 2012 23:08 #22790 by Joel
Replied by Joel on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
I'd have a lot of fun with that car! I'd put on my cowboy hat and boots, and a fringed cowboy vest, plus a pair of six shooters, and go out and rile up the town!






Joel Nystrom
1929 Duesenberg Model J Murphy Convertible Coupe
File Attachment:

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08 May 2012 13:22 #22782 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Interesting question. The only two comparable postwar "specials" that have survived are 2432 / J-415 and 2420 / J-409. 2420/ J-409 was rebodied period-correctly as a Rollston Convertible Torpedo Victoria and the postwar body survives although I'm unaware of its present whereabouts. 2432 / J-415 I believe is being rebodied as it was originally; I don't know of the fate of its special body.

The Kollins-LaGrande doesn't use a J chassis, just an engine, so it isn't quite in the same category.

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08 May 2012 13:17 #22781 by West Peterson
Replied by West Peterson on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
If the body of that car was removed, I wonder what the value of the body would be.

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08 May 2012 13:10 #22780 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Thanks, Matt. The car was bought by a Club member and will probably make its way to Auburn at some point. I don't think he has decided what he is going to do with the car yet. Stay tuned.

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08 May 2012 12:57 #22779 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

landmark wrote: Hello,

at the Houston Classic Auction, May 5th, there is a so called 1932 Duesenberg Model J LWB Custom Speedster under offer (without reserve).

In my eyes, the body-design is one of the ugliest, ever mounted on a Model J chassis :rolleyes:

www.worldwide-auctioneers.com/au ... D=70&id=44

Matt



Hello,

Worldwide Auctioneers published a salesprice about $ 297000 for that car.


Cheers

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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03 May 2012 19:39 #22755 by
Hello,
I must agree with Matt
Hopefully the new owner will right the wrongs of the former owner and finds an appropriate body for this Duesenberg.

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27 Apr 2012 19:51 #22718 by Mike Dube
Replied by Mike Dube on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

landmark wrote: Hello,

at the Houston Classic Auction, May 5th, there is a so called 1932 Duesenberg Model J LWB Custom Speedster under offer (without reserve).

In my eyes, the body-design is one of the ugliest, ever mounted on a Model J chassis :rolleyes:

www.worldwide-auctioneers.com/au ... D=70&id=44

Matt


Matt,

I couldn't agree more. The throne car isn't much to look at either, but at least the nose is traditional.

Mike
8-100A

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27 Apr 2012 15:43 #22711 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Hello,

at the Houston Classic Auction, May 5th, there is a so called 1932 Duesenberg Model J LWB Custom Speedster under offer (without reserve).

In my eyes, the body-design is one of the ugliest, ever mounted on a Model J chassis :rolleyes:

www.worldwide-auctioneers.com/au ... D=70&id=44

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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  • Chris Summers
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26 Feb 2012 23:05 #22316 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Yes, that would be with commission. I watched the auction online and the car sold for $900,000 hammer.

That was a [i:16sahhhs]fun[/i:16sahhhs] auction to watch, with quite a few cars sold at eyepopping prices.

Chris Summers
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So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.

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