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Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

  • Bob Roller
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02 Feb 2014 13:17 #26857 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic pictures
Chris,
You're not old enough to have those kind of memory lapses.
I was under the impression that particular car was back in
Switzerland. I'm glad it isn't.

Bob Roller

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  • Chris Summers
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02 Feb 2014 00:11 #26854 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Steve,

I'll look in the file when I'm back at work Monday and see if it's in there. I don't remember it but may find it.

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01 Feb 2014 23:38 #26853 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Bob,

The photo of the car in the "burnt orange" color scheme is flattering. When I saw it first hand in those colors at Harrah's collection I remember thinking it was rather unbecoming. Personally I think the blue scheme compliments the lines of the car better. Either way, a lovely car.

I think I remember giving a photo I took of the car to Chris Summers.

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01 Feb 2014 23:30 #26852 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic Duesenberg 2254
This is a fantastic departure from the traditional "J" styling themes and I think it is beautiful in the orange and brown paint scheme in preference to the blue.

Bob Roller

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  • landmark
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01 Feb 2014 18:19 #26851 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

Steve Derus wrote: The car you refer to is 2254 I think still owned by Sam and Emily Mann in NJ.

I saw this car only one time and that was as Harrah was finishing its restoration. I was shocked to see the Duesenberg emblem on the grille, I guessed it to be a Delahaye at first glance.



Hello,

in my opinion that car has one of the "better" looking european bodies (there are not many that I like). But I love the "original" Duesenberg-Style-Grille and I think that car would even look better with a Duesey-Grille.

Here are some pictures of that car: www.duesey2208.com/Datasheets/Mo ... rm2254.htm

Cheers

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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01 Feb 2014 16:59 #26849 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
The car you refer to is 2254 I think still owned by Sam and Emily Mann in NJ.

I saw this car only one time and that was as Harrah was finishing its restoration. I was shocked to see the Duesenberg emblem on the grille, I guessed it to be a Delahaye at first glance.

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01 Feb 2014 16:47 #26848 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic Ray Wolff Duesenberg
I talked to Ray right after he sold it.He got several cars and cash for it but I
don't feel like I should say what the amount was.
It is NOT one of the better looking Duesenbergs and I agree with AJ on the modifications he mentioned.
There was another "J"with a Graber body that was spectacular and it isn't the one shown in Elbert's book. On this one,the only external Duesenberg features are the wheels and the instrument panel.Is it in the USA or somewhere else?

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01 Feb 2014 13:17 #26847 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Removing the second windshield would be a huge improvement. That or taking 8 inches out of the height.

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  • Chris Summers
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31 Jan 2014 21:40 #26843 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Randy can confirm but I believe the engine of this car is actually J-422, renumbered as J-148. The car was put together by Ray Wolff and Joe Kaufmann and was on Wolff's business cards and shown at Auburn for years.

I've seen similar bodies on Renault Vivasix and Packard Twelve chassis (I think the Packard's body was moved from a Renault).

I like how the French auction catalogue gets much more excited about the legitimacy of the body than the Duesenberg chassis underneath.

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31 Jan 2014 20:46 #26842 by 61xlch
Replied by 61xlch on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Not that expensive...?

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  • landmark
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31 Jan 2014 14:23 #26838 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Hello,

J-148 will be offered at the Paris Retromobile auction by artcurial.

Estimate 600-800k Euro.

www.artcurial.com/en/asp/fullcat ... 56&image=3 You will find the description in english tongue, underneath the french one.

Cheers

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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09 Dec 2013 16:29 #26449 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Re: J357

Bob Roller wrote: Matt,
About 60 years ago,Jack Irwin and I installed a clutch in this car, J-357.It had about 20,000 miles on it then. This was a nice but slightly neglected original.The picture in Elbert's first edition shows it as a car in decline but back then,7:50x19 tires were nearly unobtainable and what few there were
had been around too long and were dry rotted.
I have driven it several times and it was a good running,good driving Duesenberg.

Bob Roller



Hello Bob,

I always appreciate your postings, they bring the history of some cars much closer to me.

I know which two (Elbert Book) photos you mentioned.

One of them is aswell published on the Curtright-website www.duesey2208.com/Datasheets/Mo ... rm2388.htm


Cheers

Matt

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ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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09 Dec 2013 16:22 #26448 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Sorry, Bob, I thought it was older. The car is still in good running shape.

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09 Dec 2013 16:21 #26447 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic J357
Chris,
The red plastic or naugahyde or dog hide was not in this car when we worked on it. I saw it with the red stuff for the first time in 1986 and
had no idea it was a seat cover. Good idea IMHO.

Bob Roller

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09 Dec 2013 15:55 #26446 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
J-391 was the first Duesenberg I ever rode in. I have a lot of sentimental attachment to that car. It still has the Union Jack on the hood that Power, who loved his British sports cars, installed.

J-357 is going to auction with its original upholstery uncovered for the first time in...many, many years. (The red plastic upholstery installed when Bob knew the car was actually seat covers for the original black leather.)

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09 Dec 2013 15:42 #26445 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic J391
I saw J391 for sale many years ago for $2500 and it was porch and deck gray and tomato soup red.I saw it again in it's present paint scheme when Mr.Falladori owned it but it was in the back of the ACD Museum.It seems as though someone in a moment of carelessness had tried to jack this heavy car up by placing a jack under the RUNNING BOARD instead of the frame.
It was a restyled running board for sure.


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09 Dec 2013 15:33 #26444 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic Using these cars for fun
I still stand by my statement that a car that won't or can't be driven needs another owner. Drive them,enjoy them and preserve them as well as possible. I figure that 30 years from now that whatever fuel is available won't be compatible with a relic of any kind.

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09 Dec 2013 15:28 #26443 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic J357
Matt,
About 60 years ago,Jack Irwin and I installed a clutch in this car, J-357.It had about 20,000 miles on it then. This was a nice but slightly neglected original.The picture in Elbert's first edition shows it as a car in decline but back then,7:50x19 tires were nearly unobtainable and what few there were
had been around too long and were dry rotted.
I have driven it several times and it was a good running,good driving Duesenberg.

Bob Roller

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08 Dec 2013 21:38 #26429 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

landmark wrote:

Chris Summers wrote:
(...)

No word yet on Mecum.



Hello,

it looks like the Duesy@mecum was not sold too. www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detai ... 813-161577


Cheers

Matt



Hello,

the car would be offered (again) @Mecum Kissimmee in January

www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detai ... 114-174314

and a Model J Murphy Torpedo Berline Convertible at a time owned by the movie-actor Tyrone Power

www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detai ... 114-174286

B.t.w. I have learned that T. Power is the father of Romina Power, in europe she was (together with her former husband Albano) a very popular singer with serveral No. 1 Chart-Hits in the early 1980ies

Here is a medley



Two more Duesenberg J auction offers in january

J-357 Murphy CC by RM

rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1064420

Looks like a nice car for to use it


J-129 Le Baron DCP by Gooding

www.goodingco.com/vehicle/1929-d ... phaeton-2/


Cheers

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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24 Nov 2013 03:16 #26328 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

Steve Derus wrote: That could happen in about 30 years when all of us old guys are long gone and no one cares anymore about the cars we revere.


And this is why I describe what I do as "keeping the flame alive." Somebody's got to be around to remember.

Incidentally, no "said to be" or "supposed to be" - that is an original supercharger on J-512, bought by the immediately previous owner for the car at considerable cost.

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23 Nov 2013 22:45 #26327 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
That could happen in about 30 years when all of us old guys are long gone and no one cares anymore about the cars we revere.

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23 Nov 2013 12:02 #26325 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic J365 and others
This whole auto hobby has been nothing but a continuous auction for decades.Isn't it time to drain the swamp and start enjoying these cars before all the owners get too old and feeble.

Bob Roller

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22 Nov 2013 20:32 #26321 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

mikespeed35 wrote: That car, J365, was a no sale at 1.5M in TX.
CORDially Mike



Mike, thank you!


Cheers

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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22 Nov 2013 19:41 #26320 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
That car, J365, was a no sale at 1.5M in TX.
CORDially Mike

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22 Nov 2013 09:11 #26318 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

Steve Derus wrote: price seems low on J-512 to me, especially when compared to the Franay sedan at $1.65M earlier this year. A true SJ Beverly should be worth much more. Wasn't it Best of Show at ACD Festival a few years ago?



Hello,

the Franay car was offered again, last week @motostalgia auction during the formula-one race-weekend in Austin, Tx.

Unfortunately I have not found any information if the car has been sold or not and for what price (highest bid).


Matt

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Wilhelm Busch

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22 Nov 2013 00:21 #26317 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Agreed, price is low. Blower is supposed to be real and the car was an original SJ.

I think it is 50/50 on the convertible/hardtop ratio over 2 million. Many of the Ferrari's are hard tops. The Wittel coupe was a hardtop. All the Tabot Largo and Delahaye that bring big money are hard tops.

It is totally about style, engine and provenance at the upper levels.

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21 Nov 2013 22:39 #26316 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
price seems low on J-512 to me, especially when compared to the Franay sedan at $1.65M earlier this year. A true SJ Beverly should be worth much more. Wasn't it Best of Show at ACD Festival a few years ago?

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21 Nov 2013 22:38 #26315 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
price seems low on J-512 to me, especially when compared to the Franay sedan at $1.65M earlier this year. A true SJ Beverly should be worth much more. Wasn't it Best of Show at ACD Festival a few years ago?

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21 Nov 2013 22:33 #26314 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic Duesenberg Beverly J512
I would prefer it over any folding top car I have ever seen.

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21 Nov 2013 22:24 #26312 by Joel
Replied by Joel on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

landmark wrote: Hello,

J-512 a 1933 Duesenberg Model (S)J Murphy Beverly sold @RM New York auction for hammerprice of $ 1.6 Million

Far under its published estimate of $ 2 to 2.5 million.

www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1063792

It is said that the car is equiped with an original supercharger, not a repro.


Cheers

Matt


Probaly because it is a closed car. Don't see too many cars without a folding top go for over a million, at least none that I've noticed.

That fact that it sold that far under the estimate tells me thet the seller didn't believe the estimate.
The fact that it sold for 1.6 million tells me that it must be an outstanding car!

Joel Nystrom
1929 Duesenberg Model J Murphy Convertible Coupe
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21 Nov 2013 20:35 #26311 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Hello,

J-512 a 1933 Duesenberg Model (S)J Murphy Beverly sold @RM New York auction for hammerprice of $ 1.6 Million

Far under its published estimate of $ 2 to 2.5 million.

www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1063792

It is said that the car is equiped with an original supercharger, not a repro.


Cheers

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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24 Aug 2013 20:55 #25807 by silverghost
Replied by silverghost on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
As I lalso like "Driver" cars where you don't have to have a stroke every time you hear a stone hit the underside of a fender ~~~
These cars were originally ment to be actually driven~~~not just used as show "Trailer Queens" or museum display pieces that get re-restored every few years in another color by another new deep pockets owner as a speculative Investment.

Keep your Duesenberg the way it is~~~"Patina" and all, end enjoy actually driving it~~~far too few owners of these great Duesenberg model "J" autos still do this today ! <!-- s;-) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;-) -->

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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24 Aug 2013 20:04 #25806 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Re: J-108

Joel wrote:
(...)

My Model J was last restored in 1959, and now the many flaws have been re-classified as "patina", drawing much more positive feedback than negative. But still, when I show up with my ratty old Duesey at an event filled with minted out show cars, I leave feeling kind of like I should do something about it. But I won't. :)



Hello Joel,

you have my "Thumb up" for that statement!


Cheers

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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23 Aug 2013 16:56 #25792 by Joel
Replied by Joel on topic Re: J-108

Mike Dube wrote: I'll weigh in again on the side of leaving nice cars alone. I saw J-108 in Ken McBrides's collection a few years ago. IMHO, restoring it was so unnecessary.


I agree with you about leaving nice cars alone. But it is hard. I see people nitpick every tiny flaw on Dueseys that were restored 15+ years ago and starting to show a little age. The standards are set very high, and some owners just can't stand the criticism if the car is not perfect. Or they feel that the car deserves better. Or they want to win a show.

My Model J was last restored in 1959, and now the many flaws have been re-classified as "patina", drawing much more positive feedback than negative. But still, when I show up with my ratty old Duesey at an event filled with minted out show cars, I leave feeling kind of like I should do something about it. But I won't. :)

Joel Nystrom
1929 Duesenberg Model J Murphy Convertible Coupe
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23 Aug 2013 12:53 #25789 by Mike Dube
Replied by Mike Dube on topic J-108
I'll weigh in again on the side of leaving nice cars alone. I saw J-108 in Ken McBrides's collection a few years ago. IMHO, restoring it was so unnecessary.

Mike
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22 Aug 2013 02:41 #25774 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Hi Joel, J-108's body is a full custom. Very few parts on it interchange with a standard Murphy Convertible Coupe. It isn't so much a prototype for the cars that came later, as a one-off in its own right.

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21 Aug 2013 18:19 #25770 by Joel
Replied by Joel on topic Re: J108

Bob Roller wrote: WHY did J108 bring a bigger price than J345?

Bob Roller


One off car, celebrity and movie history.


Agreed, plus J108 is a fresh restoration and J345 was restored over 30 years ago. Also it seems that the description of J345 played it safe on the supercharger description, leaving out the restorers claim that the supercharger cases are original Duesenberg parts. In my opinion, that hurt the value. Original superchargers add big$$, repops don't.

I finally figured out something about J108. Looking at the recent pictures of it, I thought the tires looked too small. There is so much space between the top of the tire and the underside of the rear fender. But now, after looking closer, it seems that the rear fenders are mounted higher on the body that other Murphy CC's, making the tires look smaller. Does anyone know why?

Joel Nystrom
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20 Aug 2013 14:29 #25762 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
One off car, celebrity and movie history.

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20 Aug 2013 11:42 #25759 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic J108
WHY did J108 bring a bigger price than J345?

Bob Roller

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19 Aug 2013 15:11 #25746 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

Chris Summers wrote:
(...)

No word yet on Mecum.



Hello,

it looks like the Duesy@mecum was not sold too. www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detai ... 813-161577


Cheers

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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18 Aug 2013 19:28 #25739 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

Chris Summers wrote: J-345 was no-sale at $1.8 million high bid.

J-108 was sold at $2.365 million.

No word yet on Mecum.



Hello Chris,

thank you for the information.

I wonder a bit about the "low" :rolleyes: bit for J-345, auctions have allways their surprises


Cheers

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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18 Aug 2013 18:55 #25738 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
J-345 was no-sale at $1.8 million high bid.

J-108 was sold at $2.365 million.

No word yet on Mecum.

Chris Summers
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18 Aug 2013 13:23 #25737 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
Hello,

does anybody knows the auction-results of the Duesenberg-cars offered @ the Pebble Beach/Monterey auctions (Gooding, RM and Mecum)?

Thanks!

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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30 Jun 2013 14:39 #25517 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic Original SJ sedan
If when started,main bearing rumble is heard and the oil pressure is low,then it needs a rebuild although the oil pressure is externally adjustable on these engines.Turn the crankshaft with the crank and watch the cams.Both cams should move immediately with the crankshaft.If they don't,the timing chains may be worn beyond the ability of the tensioner to keep them tight.

Bob Roller

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29 Jun 2013 11:24 #25511 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
It would look better without the whitewalls. I believe this is the same car that Richie Clyne and Don Williams sold at Hershey circa 2003/2004 or so?

It was a nice car. If that is a factory blower someone should reunite it with the limo a few posts back and swap in the reproduction. Of course I'm not sure of the overall financial wisdom of that plan since I'm not suggesting I should do it :).

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29 Jun 2013 10:51 #25510 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic preposterous claim
Maybe 1000 people worked 40 hours each.

Bob Roller

Bob Roller

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  • West Peterson
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28 Jun 2013 22:29 #25507 by West Peterson
Replied by West Peterson on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
40.000 hours??? That would be 4.5 years if you worked 24/7... no lunch breaks.

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  • Joel
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28 Jun 2013 22:23 #25506 by Joel
Replied by Joel on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
One of my favorite cars in the whole world is hitting the auction block, J345. Murphy CC disapearing top, factory supercharger added, 8 port external exhaust, amazing restoration (40,000 hours claimed)

Monterey
16 - 17 August 2013

I'll guess 3.1 mil.

www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1060491


Joel Nystrom
1929 Duesenberg Model J Murphy Convertible Coupe
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  • landmark
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04 Jun 2013 10:13 #25334 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions

silverghost wrote: In spite of the fact that it is an original factory supercharged model "SJ"~~~

It still is an unrestored original car that has only had a quickie cosmetic partial body paint job with a very plain- unexciting closed four-door body style in my opinion.

From earlier period photos that still survive ~~~ That now polished aluminum beltline molding treatment it is now sporting was just not very long ago stripped & polished during it's quickie cosmetic paint job~~~Just for this auction I suspect ?
Older extant B&W photos in various older Duesenberg books show a painted beltline trim.
Also that trim over the windshield on the roof appears to have been added.

I just wonder how well it actually runs & drives mechanically ?

You will not see this car winning any concours show event soon~~~ without a total proper frame-off restoration & proper chassis painting & overall car detailng .
I see two painted exhaust pipe manifold connectors & two rusty units~~~
Also non original fuel line hoses & clamps.
and much much more wrong~~~ just on the auction link photos.

Also~~~
It is now no longer a totally original "survivor car" since it's new cosmetic quickie re-paint.

Don't get me wrong~~~
It's still a nice car~~~but in this present condition a $$$ 1.2 Million car ? ? ?
REALLY ? ? ?


Hello,

here is a link to an old b/w-photo of that car.

www.duesey2208.com/Datasheets/Mo ... rm2543.htm


Cheers

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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  • mikespeed35
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04 Jun 2013 02:53 #25332 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
I really LOVE the roof rack!
CORDially Mike

Mike Huffman

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